Ascension Embargo

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Ascension Embargo

Postby Kannkor » 06 Apr 2018, 01:02

This is a completely separate idea to how the current Auto combo ascensions work. I'm actually going to leave both available for now at least.. which will likely lead to people's confusion.

Anyways! Let me explain the old method, and the new method.

Old method ( [x] Auto Complete Ascension Combos )
When an ability hit the mob, and you could combo it, the combo would be queued up into OgreBot.
The benefits
  • You could very specifically order who would combo what, because it waited until AFTER the first ability landed.
  • Another benefit: You could combo off anyone in the raid.
The downsides
  • You could get a backlog of ascension combos to cast, and end up missing out on actually comboing them because too much time past.
  • Not all abilities could combo, because not all of them "landed" (brittle armor, ethermancy ot name a few).

New method ( [x] Ascension Embargo And Combo ) * ( Name may change...)
When an ability is cast, if you can combo it, the combo will be queued up into OgreBot.
The downsides
  • You may not be able to specify an order (I'll explain in a moment, and I have some ideas to counter this if it does indeed prove a problem).
  • You can NOT combo off anyone in the raid, only toons you are logged into.
The benefits
  • Can never fall 'behind' on combos, because they only happen 1 combo at a time.
  • All abilities can combo, including brittle armor and ethermancy.

The brief descriptions above, show basically 1 very minor difference, when an ability HITS the mob, vs when an ability is cast. This is a VERY big difference however.
What also happens, is any time an ascension ability is cast (regardless if you can combo it or not), NO other ascension abilities in the cast stack are allowed to be cast for 10 seconds (may make this modifiable). This gives people time to combo, and re-combo it, without having more ascension starters go off.
You don't have to do anything special to your ascension abilities either, Ogrebot knows which ones are ascension and will avoid casting them while the embargo (the 10 seconds) is active.

So, I mentioned you may not be able to specify an order, let me give you an example:
Levinbolt combos with Granite Protector.
Toon1 starts casting Levinbolt (2.5 second cast time)
Toon2 sees this, and knows he can cast Granite Protector to combo, so he starts casting it IMMEDIATELY, which has a 2.0 second cast time. Assuming Toon2 isn't casting an ability with > 0.5s cast time remaining...
Toon2 lands Granite protector first, THEN Toon1's Levinbolt lands, resulting in a Levinbolt combo, instead of a Granite Protector combo.
Working on a good way to resolve this...

Update: (Why I striked all the text above.)
Made the new way wait a short period (1s as of right now) before it starts trying to combo. This allows the person casting the start to actually get the ability rolling before they start to combo it.

UI Elements added:
Checkbox on Settings tab
Updated Ascension tab

Make a way to add abilities via mcp to do not combo
Make a way to enable/disable abilities via map for do not combo
Posts: 336
Joined: 06 Nov 2013, 11:49

Re: Ascension Embargo

Postby Kannkor » 08 Apr 2018, 18:38

Now that ascension embargo and combos is working awesome, I thought it was time to update my Ascension in my caststacks. I figured I would add what/how/why I was doing what I was doing, so people could do the same for their group (or use it and do whatever works best for them).

I run 2 groups, but both groups are made up of the same ascension classes.
1x Elementalist
1x Thaumaturgist
2x Geomancer
2x Etherealist

The duplicate Geo/Ethe are both priests. This is done so if I need to tell my priests to NOT cast ascension (hard healing fight, super important cure fight etc), they can and not effect my ascension combos. In this case, my priests will just re-combo (combo off a combo) if enabled.
Because of this, Geo and Eth (non-priests) will ALWAYS do the starters, so the priests can re-combo.

Some considerations..
Who do I want to combo the spell? Generally my main DPS, but I'm not sure how important this actually is.

I think the REUSE of the ability could be the most important part here. For short fights when you have all your ascension up, it doesn't matter, but any fight that lasts longer than 2-3 minutes when ascension start coming off cool down, means this may be very important.
Take for example: Ascension1 and Ascension2 combo. If I cast them in that order, Ascension1, then Ascension2 combos, if Ascension 1's reuse time is 2 minutes, but Ascension 2's reuse is 2 minutes 30 seconds, it won't combo again. If we change it around, and cast Ascension2 first, Ascension1 will combo. Then when Ascension 2 is back up, Ascension 1 will already be back up, and we can combo again.

Does comboing an ability do something "special" we care about? Or are they all just additional damage?

Okay... here goes on compiling the data.
Ability name (Ascension Class) - Reuse timer in seconds
Code: Select all
This is going to be a special circumstance we can talk about later, because Focused Blast resets levinbolt.
Levinbolt (Eth) - 120
Granite Protector (Geo) - 288
Etherflash (Eth) - 168
Virulent Outbreak (Tha) - 120

Ethershadow Assassin (Eth) - 156
Brittle Armor (Ele) - 128
Implosion (Eth) - 204
Terrestrial Coffin (Geo) -  132

Cascading Force (Eth) - 144
Revocation of Life (Tha) - 288

Glacial Freeze (Ele) - 204
Septic Strike (Tha) - 120

Stone Hammer (Geo) - 120
Blood Contract (Tha) - 156

Telluric Rending (Geo) - 156
Tainted Mutation (Tha) - 240 (Reminder: If this goes into the caststack, you'll need to add [ID])

Erosion (Geo) - 216
Wildfire (Ele) - 120

Ethermancy (Eth) - 288
Scorched Earth (Ele) - 156

Elemental Amalgamation (Ele) - 204
Mudslide (Geo) - 144

Withering (Tha) - 132
Frozen Heavens (Ele) - 204

Domain of Earth (Geo) - 124
Dessication (Tha) - 204

Bloatfly (Tha) - 176
Fiery Incineration (Ele) -  204

I think I'm going to use the REUSE approach above all else. This means the ability with the HIGHER reuse will be the starter, and the ability with the LOWER reuse will be the combo. If there's any special cases, I'll make note of them, so here goes:
Code: Select all
In this scenario, I'm not willing to give up 2x Levinbolt, just to combo Granite protector. Focused Blast is also 160s. So maybe the best approach, is to have Focused blast in the caststack, with Levinbolt as a PRECAST and as a POSTCAST. Then we can just let Granite Protector combo off it, when ever it's available.
Levinbolt (Eth) - 150
Granite Protector (Geo) - 288

Starter: Etherflash (Eth) - 168
Combo: Virulent Outbreak (Tha) - 120
Re-Combo: Etherflash (Eth) - 168

Starter: Ethershadow Assassin (Eth) - 156
Combo: Brittle Armor (Ele) - 128
Re-Combo: Ethershadow Assassin (Eth) - 156
Starter: Implosion (Eth) - 204
Combo: Terrestrial Coffin (Geo) -  132
Re-Combo: Implosion (Eth) - 204

I really don't like the idea of CF sitting on cd for it's entire duration. I'm thinking we change this one up.
Starter: Cascading Force (Eth) - 144
Combo (every other one) Revocation of Life (Tha) - 288
Re-Combo (every other one): Cascading Force (Eth) - 144

Special circumstance here again, if there are mobs where you need to use GF on. That seems to be mostly KA, not PoP. So we'll ignore that for now.
Starter: Glacial Freeze (Ele) - 204
Combo: Septic Strike (Tha) - 120
This is unfortunate for my group make up, because I have 2 Geo's. So when they combo, only 1 will get the combo and the other will just be a cast. That's fine, nothing we can do about it. The reuse would mess up timing if we did it the other way around.
Starter: Blood Contract (Tha) - 156
Combo: Stone Hammer (Geo) - 120

Because Tainted mutation lasts for over 6 minutes, there's not much point waiting. So I feel comfortable having Telluric as the starter, and Tainted can combo every other time. (When Tainted combos, it does a lot of damage).
Starter: Telluric Rending (Geo) - 156
Combo: Tainted Mutation (Tha) - 240 (Reminder: If this goes into the caststack, you'll need to add [ID])
Re-Combo: Telluric Rending (Geo) - 156

Starter: Erosion (Geo) - 216
Combo: Wildfire (Ele) - 120
Re-Combo: Erosion (Geo) - 216

I have no idea what Ethermancy does when combo'd. So in this case I'm going to do something different. I want to combo Scorched Earth on the first round, if possible, then just keep casting Scorched Earth as it's up. So in this case, BOTH are going to be in the caststack, but Scorched Earth will be down a little to hopefully allow Ethermancy to be cast first.
Starter: Ethermancy (Eth) - 288
Starter (and combo) Scorched Earth (Ele) - 156
Re-Combo: Ethermancy (Eth) - 288

Starter: Elemental Amalgamation (Ele) - 204
Combo: Mudslide (Geo) - 144

Need to find out what happens when Withering combos. If  it's not a lot of damage, this will change, as FH does a lot of damage when it combos.
Starter: Frozen Heavens (Ele) - 204
Combo: Withering (Tha) - 132

Starter: Dessication (Tha) - 204
Combo: Domain of Earth (Geo) - 124

Starter: Fiery Incineration (Ele) -  204
Combo: Bloatfly (Tha) - 176

More on this later while I think about things...
Posts: 336
Joined: 06 Nov 2013, 11:49

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